None of this is right - an open letter to fandom

[aragarna]

Dear fandom,

I'm tired of the difference of treatment Peter and Neal receive from the fandom.
Basically, whatever shenanigan Neal plots, it's excused because he has a good reason, and he has a good heart. And Peter has never the right to be the slightest angry at Neal for that, because otherwise he's just mean, cruel, ungrateful, sanctimonious and hypocrite.

This is not fair. This is not fair to Peter, nor it is fair to the show.
The general problem in this fandom (I'm only making general statements, so please, wonderful people of my flist, don't take it personally - unless you recognize yourself), is that the fandom is mostly and in majority rooting for Neal (and I blame his big blue eyes for this). Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's a problem to have a favorite. I myself have a known soft spot for Peter. But where it annoys me is when any other character's feelings are disguarded because all that matters is Neal.

Why so much hate for so little?
What did Peter do?
- He isn't grateful of Neal's sacrifice to get him out of jail.
Well, if you pause one second to see things from his perspective, Neal didn't trust the system to work, so Neal decided to bribe a disctrict attorney, a man serving that system, a man now rotting that system. Peter, as someone who believes strongly in his duty to serve the system, can't accept this. This is the exact contrary of what his job is.
And I really don't see why that would make him a hypocrite. Peter has ventured in the grey areas in the past, but it has always been to serve the system. Restoring order and Justice and preventing criminals - or ill-intentioned agents - from furthering chaos and polluting that system he serves and that is meant to protect the society. Peter may have occasionally crossed the strict line of the law, but he never crossed his own line of moral and principles.
We all have a certain tolerance to the letter of the law, but also firm principles and boundaries that we won't cross (most people anyway) Like, you know, I might alledgedly watch White Collar illegally. I'm not going to rob a store. There is a certain rationalization work here, but I don't believe that makes me a hypocrite. It's just the set of principles I live by.
So, Peter has principles and moral lines he won't cross. He has an ideal of Justice and protection of the society. Is that bad?
Unless this fandom is actually made of psychopaths, we actually much more live(or aspire to live) according to Peter's line of conduct than Neal's.

Of course, that system Peter serves isn't perfect and it might have failed him - he wouldn't even know that for sure since Neal took it aways from him. But that doesn't mean Peter should give up the system, that only means he should work harder to make it work better.
So, no Peter isn't a hypocrite. Just a man with a strong moral compass. And it's actually eating him that he had to make a compromise that stains his moral compass.
Yet, he made that compromise. And if you tell me that he did it to save his ass, then why is he the only one having a hard time living with that choice?
He actually made the one thing that protects Neal and Elizabeth, and that makes him miserable. And yet, all fandom sees is a selfish ungrateful Peter...

The problem Peter has with Neal is that Neal doesn't seem to see the problem here. All he sees is a "win" when Peter sees a bad compromise. And it's easy for Neal to play the whole hurt victim. But he knew exactly what he was getting himself into. He kept it from Peter. He deceived and let Peter believe he did things right. That's as close to a lie as it ever gets with Neal. So, why did he keep it from Peter? Because he knew Peter wouldn't like it, wouldn't accept it. It was his choice. It would be a great sacrifice - freeing Peter at the price of his frienship - if only he assumed it, instead of making his puss-in-suit hurt look.

- The second Big Horrible Thing Peter did this season was...calling Neal a criminal, Oh My God. And twice! But seriously given all the illegal things Neal has done this season - deceiving, keeping secrets, stealing (including 2 millions of dollars and a macuahuilt just for the sake of it), impersonating an FBI agent, cracking his anklet... (And that's only what Peter knows) - well, he acted very much like a criminal all this time.
And isn't that hypocrite? Maybe if he really stopped acting like a criminal all the time, he could have a legitimate right to be hurt for being named such.

The bottom of the problem is that Neal doesn't know how not to be a criminal. He only think in "criminal". If he wants to be something else, he has to start trusting the non-criminals around him more. Hagen had power over a judge and wanted to coerce him into working for him? Neal should have gone to Peter, or at least the FBI with that piece of info. Tell them the judge was corrupted, that Hagen wanted an appeal. They could have taken them both down properly, legally.

Peter might still have lost his job? Well, Peter can barely do his job right now anyway. So, at least, Neal should have given Peter the choice. I get you out my own way, or you'll lose your badge. It would have been Peter's choice, instead of Neal's.
But Neal didn't give him that choice and made Peter quite close of a criminal himself. So, yes, I do think Peter has a legitimate right to be upset by the situation.

And you know, fandom, there's little doubt Peter won't stay mad at Neal for very long. They'll work things out. Why can't you show Peter just a little bit of faith?
Why are you so harsh on Peter and so forgiving of Neal?
I don't remember you, fandom, asking for Neal's head when he said "we're done" (season 4), or "we're not partners anymore" (season 5). No, of course, you found Neal some nice excuses. Oh right, especially that second one that was nice: he had a crime to commit right under his new handler's nose so he had to get rid of Peter!
But those comments hurt Peter just the same way Peter's words can hurt Neal.
Oh, and I don't remember you saying you hated Neal for having an innocent bystander fired, or you know, like I said, stealing things for the sake of it.

Peter's misteps are mean and cruel and selfish. Neal's always have good excuses. With you fandom, it's always Peter's fault, all you see is Peter being angry, but you don't care that he's just as hurt as Neal. And really, it's tiresome. Peter too, has feelings.

And for the record, I don't like this blame game at all. I don't really enjoy pointing out all of the wrongs in Neal. I still think Neal is worth fighting for and rooting for. I enjoy much more focusing on the great in the characters, than on their faults. Though their faults are what make them human and also lovable. And I don't understand why this compassion for Neal can't be applied to Peter.
And I do understand why Neal is hurt. I do feel for Neal. But why, oh why, fandom, can't you be just a little more tolerant for Peter, who is just as hurt? After 5 seasons, don't you know Peter enough to know that he is not cruel, and that if he reacts the way he does it's because he's hurting? And can't you stop forgetting all the great things Peter did in the previous seasons that proved that Peter does love Neal?

The problem with all this, beyond the fact that it does ruins a little my enjoyment of the show and it makes me afraid just to talk to you, fandom, the problem is that you seem to be missing the whole point of the show. The show is about two men who are on opposite sides, and became unexpectedly friends, and who are trying to find a balance between their respective world and their friendship. And this season is also testing the limit of the lenght they both can go for each other without losing themselves. But this friendship is only beautiful if both men are considered beautiful and decent.
Also, and I'm sorry fandom, but ultimately, Neal is the one on the wrong side of the law and moral. So, he's the one who will have to make the greatest effort... There are reasons why crimes are illegal, which Neal needs to understand.


Feel free not to comment if you feel your eyes just rolling out of your eyeballs in disapproval.
I guess I just needed this off my chest...

Comments

[winterstar95.livejournal.com]

You got that right none of this is right. I don't like season 5 at all. Is it because of Peter or Neal? Neither. It is because of the writers. This show used to be charming - now, it isn't at all. The two main characters used to have a bromance, now not. I don't like it. I continue to watch in hopes that the writers will remember why the fandom is there in the first place, but I have little hope. I will continue to pretend season 5 doesn't exist for my head canon sake.

[elrhiarhodan]

You are absolutely right - fandom has (by and large) been terrible unfair to Peter, and this past week, to Jones, too.

I see comments that seem to attribute every case Peter's ever solved, every single triumph, every success, to Neal. That he was nothing before Neal and he'll be nothing afterwards.

HAH! Peter's success - particularly when you look at the numbers he quotes in the start of Withdrawal - are pretty conclusively his own (timeline-wise, that hearing in Withdrawal was about only 5 - 6 months into Neal's tenure).

I love Neal, don't get me wrong. But he's not an angel, he fucks up and does it badly. Let's make a list of his pre-S5 transgressions:

1 - Engineers the theft of the music box from the Italian Embassy and then from Diana's apartment
2 - Steals a gun, breaks into a museum, and nearly murders Fowler
3 - Is significantly responsible for the kidnapping of Peter's wife
4 - Steals a priceless Egyptian artifact
5 - Steals The Entrance of the Masked Dancers
6 - Conceals the stolen Nazi loot, plans on running at the earliest possible moment (and a point in his favor that he sacrificed the Otter to save Jones)

Neal has consistently committed criminal acts and Peter called him a criminal. I'm supposed to be shocked?

Now - one thing that no one seems to mention is that Peter spent six weeks in PRISON - and while the charges were never specified, he could have been facing the death penalty (murdering a U.S. government official is a capital crime). Don't you think that might have done something to Peter's psyche? Made him wary and frightened and a little gun shy?

Now - I love me some angst and this season is definitely feeding the plot bunnies, but the Peter bashing HAS GOT TO STOP.

Thank you for letting me get this off of my chest.

[sholio]

YES, ALL OF THIS. THANK YOU FOR POSTING THIS. ♥

I love that the show itself doesn't really take sides -- we see (and are invited to sympathize with) both Peter and Neal's reasons for doing what they do. We see both of them make mistakes; we see both of them get hurt, and hurt each other.

I just wish the fandom could view it likewise. The Peter bashing hurts my heart. And like you said, I don't want to see Neal bashed instead. I just want fandom to give BOTH of them a chance, and accept that BOTH of them have valid reasons for what they do.

I mean, if you turn the latest conflict around ... imagine that Peter did something to really hurt Neal, so Neal pulled back and became cooler toward him, and told someone else (completely outside Peter's earshot -- in this episode, Peter had no idea Neal was listening) that he regrets taking the anklet deal ... do you think we'd see a huge upswell of hate directed at Neal? No! In fact, what I described is basically just what happened in early season five. It's the unfairness of it that frustrates me so much. Neal should have sympathy, certainly, but Peter should have sympathy too.

And yeah, it's made me reluctant to interact with the fandom. I've been loving this season, but I've had to pull back from reading too many episode reactions, and I'm too nervous to make my own reaction posts because the character bashing makes me so unhappy. I've asked people not to leave me Peter-bashing comments, and gotten them anyway. I've been told I'm over-sensitive and that I'm just imagining the Peter hate, that it doesn't really exist. Screw that, it does exist, it's everywhere. And okay, yeah, I know I can be thin-skinned on that subject and I'm trying to be more chill about it, but I just wish it was possible to find more spaces in the fandom that are Peter-friendly. (Which is one of the reasons why I love your journal so much! :))

It's just terribly frustrating because, like you said, the whole POINT of the show is that it's about two very different men with different approaches to solving crimes, trying to get along and occasionally failing. It's NOT about Neal the victim and his abusive handler, but you'd never know that from the way some people react to it.

[lov-pb.livejournal.com]

Fandom has always been slanted toward Neal''s behalf, holding Peter to an impossible standard. He's damned if he protects Neal (hypocritical lawbreaker) or plays the lawman (tyrant not appreciating Neal's contributions). This season brought out the worse fan tirades hurled at Peter's character. It was ridiculous in its extreme. It also took away a great deal of my enjoyment with the show.
Like you pointed out --- these two men are opposites in many areas. Let's have some respect for both characters. Instead of tearing their actions apart, try to understand their motives and perceptions.
Peter has always championed Neal's cause, even to the detriment of his own career. His prison experience caused him to re-evaluate the line he crossed.
Peter Burke is a good man; certainly one of my role models. :)

[anodyneer]

This...all of this.

To add to your list - he broke into Peter's house, and into his personal safe (to which he "stole" the imprint for the key as well) to get the U-boat manifest. Peter still doesn't know about this one. It might not seem as big as the others you listed, but it has always stood out in my mind because that's Peter's home - and Neal saw how violated Peter felt when Fowler's people were in his home.

Also, as for Peter's success, we can't forget that he's the only one who could catch Neal. He also moved up in the division fairly quickly (from the bullpen to getting his own office and being in charge) before Neal started working for him. Neal definitely helped his closure rate, but Peter would've moved up in the ranks with or without him - probably faster without him, since Peter likely wouldn't have been suspended/had his badge taken multiple times. And yeah, wouldn't have spent six weeks in prison. O.o

I saw a lot of frustration directed toward the comments Peter made to Jones about not becoming Neal's handler. Peter's exact quote was: "Don't volunteer to take him on. Trust me, you'll regret it."

Never does he say, "I regret it" or "you'll regret it as much as I do" or anything even close to that. He's only saying that Jones will regret it...and he's absolutely correct. Jones wouldn't have the tolerance for all of Neal's "criminal baggage" (for lack of a better term), and while Peter has been able to roll with it up until this season, I don't think the same could be said for Jones.

Hell, Jones already thinks Neal's holding Peter back, and he was also the only one at Neal's commutation hearing who testified that he thought Neal should serve out his sentence instead of being freed. Jones is a respectable agent, but he's not Peter, and he would regret (probably even grow to resent) becoming Neal's handler. IMO, anyway.

I'm actually enjoying this season. So many of us write angst into our fics and love reading it, but then when it happens on the show, OH NOES! ;) I have faith that the angst will be resolved eventually, because they know what they have in the bromance...so in the meantime I'm enjoying it.

We've had some great stuff that we've basically asked for (either in fics or via social media) this season - sick Peter, drugged Neal, more of Peter in casual clothes and shirtless, Neal in various states of undress, Mozzie being deliciously badass, etc. And "Live Feed," in particular, literally kept me on the edge of my seat - and cursing commercial breaks - until the very end (and anxiously awaiting the rest of the season).

All that to say, I'm with you - the Peter bashing needs to stop. Bottom line, he still cares about Neal a great deal, or he would've just sent him back to prison and been done with him already. He does still have the power/option to revoke Neal's work release, but despite all that's happened, he's chosen not to do that. There is still some part of Peter that believes Neal deserves to be out of prison, working with the FBI, and doing right in the world.

[lov-pb.livejournal.com]

Yes , I agree 100%. Thank you Sholio, Ara, Anodyneer and Elrhiarhodan for taking an unpopular stand. Peter bashing and Peter hate does exist. It was never more evident than in the last few months. Can't we be more like the series itself and accommodate both men's perspective? Their love for each other always outweighs their differences.

[sholio]

And there's also that lovely bit at the end of "Live Feed" where Peter's first reaction, when the shooting starts, is to push Neal down and cover him with his body. That's not the behavior of someone who doesn't care about Neal. He's just hurt and upset right now. And he has every right to be! Which is not to say Neal's an awful person, just that he has hurt and angered Peter (as Peter has also hurt and angered him) and it's not fair to expect Peter to forgive and forget immediately. But Peter's love for him is very much in evidence, still.

[frith_in_thorns]

Personally, this is my favourite season so far to watch! I really love how the show's getting deep into the character motivations and into what makes each of them who they are. And how far they're willing to go for each other. This is Peter's break point, and I love that we're finding it. And the conflict between them here feels completely natural and not at all forced (this was my main problem with S3 -- I was on board with them being at odds, but the reason for it felt kind of staged).

This is to say, I really HATE the Peter-bashing. I'm amazed he isn't MORE fucked up at this point, tbh! But they're BOTH hurting, in different ways. Sure, Peter's reacting kind of badly, but Neal reacts kind of badly ALL THE TIME. I don't like the double standard, and it makes me sad :(

[frith_in_thorns]

And then not let go of Neal for a really long time. Let's not forget that either! ♥

[sholio]

I HAVE WATCHED THAT SCENE A LOT ALREADY. :D His hand on Neal's shoulder! *flaily*

[veleda-k.livejournal.com]

PREACH.

There's always been Peter negativity in fandom, but lately it's reached toxic levels. Neither Peter nor Neal are perfect. Both of them have hurt each other. Both of them have, at one point or another, wronged each other. But somehow, it's only Neal's feelings that matter.

Peter's reaction doesn't need to be 100% cold logic. He gets to be angry. He gets to feel hurt. This season has been great at treating both Neal and Peter's viewpoints with respect and understanding. Fandom could learn a few things.

(Icon not aimed at you.)

[surreal-44.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah. I agree totally.

I've withdrawn from WC fandom mostly because I couldn't deal with the inevitable Peter-bashing. I think it's pretty obvious that Peter is struggling with a lot of issues, and his coping mechanism sucks (and by coping mechanism, I mean that he's withdrawing from El and Neal, and NOT actually coping with anything).

Peter's reactions have all been very realistic. How else is he supposed to react to what's happened?

He's been kidnapped like three times now, been nearly killed half a dozen other times, had his wife kidnapped, and been in prison facing a completely uncertain future. If he doesn't have PTSD, I would be shocked.

[car8.livejournal.com]

I hate to see you so upset. Please don't take this the wrong way, but is there any way that you can stay away from that awful place? It's the worst place i n the fandom and always has been.

I went in season 1, then stopped. Once in a while, I peek in to see if anything has changed, and leave again.I'm mainly talking about the episode threads, because I still had been going to actor and character threads, but lately the venom has spread everywhere. The moderation is terrible.

As you said, it's taking some of your joy about the show away. That is terrible. Don't you think you would be happier just staying away? It sounds like you aren't getting anywhere defending your point of view, and you can't be enjoying hitting your head against a brick wall. It hurts!

I hope that there are lots of places where there are actual fans of White Collar and that you know where they are. I really don't want to believe that the majority of the fandom is represented by that cesspool.I hope that I didn't offend you and that it helped you to post this and to get support from your friends. Hang in there.

[sg-lab.livejournal.com]

Peter has ventured in the grey areas in the past, but it has always been to serve the system. Restoring order and Justice and preventing criminals - or ill-intentioned agents - from furthering chaos and polluting that system he serves and that is meant to protect the society.

This so much. Peter believes in the system, he just sees there are people who corrupt that system and he can't stand for that.

I've been following along on the forum, but quit posting a while ago. It's just so depressing. I feel like I'm watching a completely different show from so much of the fandom. Then again, I've never really felt I fit into this fandom really.

I'd like to friend you, I have very few White Collar fans on my flist.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Oh it's okay not to like season 5. And really, of the people unhappy with season 5, you're one of the less vocal. I don't have a problem with people not liking season 5 (even if some comments do pain me), here it's just a point about the huge different of treatment between the 2 main characters... It's been particularly awful this season, but it's true each time Peter says something wrong (or any other character for that matter)

[sapphire2309]

I really only thought to question Peter for his comments when fandom mentioned it. Usually, I watch the show in a happy daze, not analyzing till the rewatch, but since I joined fandom, I read episode squees before the rewatch. Fandom people generally pick up a lot more on their first viewing of the ep than I do. And then I saw all the focus on the 'criminal' comment and started doubting myself. (This is also why I read books twice)

I was supporting both of them at the end of S5E1, then I dropped into fandom reactions and they confused me.

Thankfully, I decided to keep out of any discussions on Peter.

I agree with everyone who has said that fandom has been unfair to Peter.

Though I watch the show mostly for Neal, I love Peter too, and I think he's been perfectly in character, beautifully conflicted and pretty damn brilliant all season long. He's made very difficult choices, including a moral compromise the size of a blackhole that could consume him, and that is not easy for anybody.

If I'd had to stay in prison for six weeks, and (as far as I knew) Neal was responsible for it, and I had the option of getting him out of my sight(despite the fact that that means a prison cell), I would have done it.

I respect Peter for not taking that step (yet - I'm somewhat evilly hoping that he does put Neal back in prison). I think it means he still cares for Neal, despite the huge amount of pain and conflict he's been through because of him, or at the very least doesn't feel comfortable with the thought of taking that step - it's as much a point of no return for him as cutting the anklet is for Neal.

Peter is far stronger than I would have been.

I've started rewatching episodes before delving into fandom reactions, so that I have my own point of view and enough material to stick to it and not be influenced by Peter-bashing. I wish it wasn't something I had to do.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Exactly! :-)
It's all in that sentence you wrote:
I love Neal, don't get me wrong. But he's not an angel, he fucks up and does it badly.
I feel like some people try very hard to see him as an angel (he does look like one, that may explain it... ;-) )

And also, yes, Peter does very well on his own - his closure rate was high enough before Neal -, and it's not always Neal who has the solution to catch the bad guys. They're usually shown equally smart. Which is actually one thing that I like about the show, compared to other cop-consultant shows.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Let's have some respect for both characters. Instead of tearing their actions apart, try to understand their motives and perceptions.

This!

oh and this:
Peter Burke is a good man; certainly one of my role models. :)

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly! I think the show is at its best (for me anyway) when it's going deep exploring its own concept: that friendship that shouldn't be. I didn't even had a problem with season 3. To be be honest, that season 2 cliffhanger left me all excited, like "omg, how are they going to solve this?!" (I guess I did see the reason behind it more than the angst of the situation itself. I wasn't so invested in the series either).
I find it more interesting than Neal's past and all its drama, because the core of the show is the relationship between Neal and Peter.
I think the "it's a win" "it's a compromise" line was the most interesting part of that conversation, because it shows clearly the difference of views between Neal and Peter. They still have so much to learn... ;-)

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

(Icon not aimed at you.)
LOL I didn't take it for me, and it did make me laugh! :-D

But, yes, that's what I find frustrating. Peter doesn't seem allowed to have feelings... Even when the show clearly shows it. I find the show pretty fair to both guys, and I wish fandom was too.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Oh nice to see you! :-)

Peter's reactions have all been very realistic. How else is he supposed to react to what's happened?

And what would have it said about his character if he had taken it all with a smile?!
Sure it would have been an easier road for the fans I guess, but for Peter's character, I have to say I would have been disappointed.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Oh I do limit my interactions in the forum. I stick to the safe threads. And I did make a big rant there.
But it's actually not just the forum. I see it here too. In certain of the most popular episode reaction posts. It's full of "I hate Peter" or "I'm starting to hate Peter" "Peter is just an hypocrite". It's not as bad as it is in the forum, but it does exist on LJ too.

But I do find better places here in LJ too. Maybe because it makes it easier to filter the people you can interact with, and the people who sees things so differently from me, they just don't friend me.

Anyway, thanks for your message. :-) No offense at all. The positive reactions to this post actually make me feel better. :-)
There ARE great and measured people in the fandom!

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

friended you back! :-)

Yes, I have the feeling that people don't see it as a good thing that Peter believes in the system. I don't understand. The system, and the society aren't perfect, but that's what protects us, as citizens. We need people like Peter to serve it. Maybe Peter can sounds naive or idealistic, but that's still what makes him deep down, a good guy.
Maybe it's the long heritage of rebellous cops and agents on TV who have lost all respect for the system they serve... Peter is an oddity.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Heee lol, that's what happened to me in season 3. I joined the fandom at the start of season 3. Obviously that was a bad time LOL I was totally surprised by the fandom reaction.

The sad thing is that now I know the fandom enough to know what they're going to say. I knew El would be ripped apart for asking Neal to lie (like it was the endo of the world). And I knew that the "criminal" part of Peter's speech in 5x01 would weight much more than the "you're part of that family" and " I can't risk you going back".

Like I said, I don't have a problem per se if people prefer Neal (or Mozzie, or Satchmo), and like you show, there's no reason not to love both characters.

Thanks for your post! :-)

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Well, we did have Neal saying he wanted to cut all strings, including Peter's. But it was all the shrink's fault...
Which is my main problem. Neal is always given excuses, Peter is always condemned.

I didn't mention the conversation with Jones (post was already long enough), but it clearly was meant to be an advice to Jones. Yes, it hurts to hear this (for Neal, and for us), but it does make sense. Jones isn't Peter and Jones is already sceptical of Neal. Jones would have an harder time than Peter to cover for Neal and make compromises. Given Neal's behaviour and Jones' character, it seems like an honest advice.


Agree with everything you said, and I'm equally pleased to have found in you such a nice Peter fan. And one who writes awesome fics with that! :-)