No, my AO3 is NOT your soapbox.

[aragarna]

Okay, folks, I apologize for this little rant, but I'm getting increasingly annoyed by the comments I receive on AO3. All in all, I don't receive much comments there - which is probably because my main audience is LJ-based - but about 50 % of those comments (and usually the longest ones) are just rants about Peter and how wrong *my* vision of the show is.

I'm rather new to AO3, so I don't know if it has always been like that, or if it's a recent migration from FF.net, or just new fans of the show.
The reason why I stopped posting on FF.net is precisely because I was tired of dealing with all the Peter-bashing (and El-bashing, or Mozzie-bashing...). I don't think the comment section of a fanfiction is the appropriate place to share your (distorted) view of the show and tell the author how wrong they are.

But this feel so much like the USA forum trolls all over again. They are this little club of haters that enjoy spreading their hate of everything that is not pretty boy Neal.

I've got a bunch of comments on my S6 related fics arguing, in turn, that Peter would be a terrible and horribly abusive father, that Peter was a terrible and abusive friend to Neal, that Peter is arrogant and blind, that my portrayal of Peter is very nice and they'd wish the show would be more like that....
I even got a comment saying that my finale AU was great, but they wished I had also undone the pregnancy! (Dude, that's my story, I do what I want).

The one I received this morning, in response to my recent Why Does My Heart fic, was particularly refined. And there's nothing like reading this as you just wake up and check  your mails... But you gotta love the irony of being accused of portraying Peter as "innocent Peter".
(For the record, I never said Peter was perfect or innocent, and most importantly, that was NOT the subject of the story at ALL. It's a post S6 fic, from Peter's POV. it's not dealing with anything prior to that, I have written things about other seasons in the past. And I do think I've been fair enough to Neal. If you don't give a shit about Peter's feelings, just don't read my fics.)

But my favorite part of that comment remains the first line. I can't resist sharing this. "Man, I really wanted to like this -- it's well-written and, unfortunately, in character."
So apparently my story that is accused of being "innocent Peter" (whatever that means) is "unfortunately, in character" ?! And that is a bad thing ?!

And don't even bother trying to then suck up to me by telling me what a brilliant writer I am otherwise. Just get the hell out of my fics.

What irks me the most about those comments is that they're arguing that it is my vision of the show, versus theirs. I'm perfectly aware that it might come across as pretentious, but I actually believe I have fair view of  what the show actually is. I don't have this distorted version that there's one poor little innocent and pretty thing named Neal and that all the other characters are just mean and abusive to him. I don't ignore half of the things the character do so that it could fit my vision.
It's just not a matter of "visions". They're just seeing the show in a very distorted way, that is not fair to the show.

You can write whatever you want in your fanfictions, in your forum or your journal, I won't argue with that, but don't come and tell me my vision of the show is wrong. And more importantly, don't use my fanfictions as your soapbox.


ETA: Because someone thought that my "my fic isn't a soapbox, that is rude" reply on the fic page (which was a lot more polite than this post) to the mentioned comment was, well, very rude, I've decided to just delete the whole thread. So don't look for the comment over there. Yes, my AO3 is a dictatorship with no freedom of speech. I only accept praises and will jail any opponent who dares disagreeing with me.




I think George Clooney sums it up rather well:

"We're at sort of a cynical time in society. Don't ever read comments on anything! People can live anonymously, and I honestly think that when they were talking about freedom of speech in 1787, the theory was that you had to own your speech. It had to belong to you, and you actually had to take some responsibility for it. Now you can just sit alone and say horrible things, and it becomes fashionable to be shitty to people. [...] It's become a much more cynical time, a time when people think its fun to only be negative."

There, I feel better now.

Comments

[treonb.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

You've got to admit that 'unfortunately" bit is funny...

As for George Clooney, he's behind the times. Nowadays people have no problems owning the hate with their full names on view. There's absolutely no shame.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

LOL yeah I have to say, the "unfortunately" kinda made up for the rest. That was a good one.

Yes, that's true. He does have a very good point about "people think its fun to only be negative." I don't know if it's particularly new, but that's definitely something I've observed in fandom. It's not necessarily the majority, but they're often the most vocal. They just love to spread their negativity.

*hugs back*

[kanarek13]

*I hate season 3*

I bet you miss reading that 100 times a day :P

and from the top ten of WTF: "All writers write OOC, but some write canon-compliant."

NASA is still trying to decode that message.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

LOL oh yes I miss that so much. Fortunately those AO3 trolls still give me my dose of "Peter's an arrogant self-righteous jerk".

Ahahah, yeah I guess it goes with the "unfortunately in character". We might need those Enigma genius crackers.

[reve-silencieux.livejournal.com]

Society needs to remember Thumper's wisdom: "If you can't say something nice... don't say nothing at all."

Seriously, we all have our views on the show, I get that, but that doesn't mean you go state your beliefs and argue against someone (and their fic) that obviously don't align with you. What's the point?? What do they hope to accomplish when the show is done and you're going to write what you want to write! *sigh* (I know I probably sound naive since that's how the world reacts and LOVES to do just that...) But really, just read or review the stuff you like, how hard is that?

*hugs* It's really crazy considering the fic itself. They were finally talking and airing their pain. It wasn't an easy forgiveness or either of them turning a blind eye towards their problems. I've seen sickeningly sweet fics where they forgive all and act like nothing happened, and that's harder to accept. You chose to work through the realities of the pain they caused each other. *sigh* Anyway... off my soapbox now. ;-)

[kanarek13]

I think to us it's all so painfully clear, we are just unable to switch our brains to the troll mode - and that's required to understand the trolls :D

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Yes, I don't even understand why it came up on that fic. It's not a matter of portraying Peter as innocent, he didn't do a thing! But like I said, they just seem to enjoy to troll. They pick a tiny little detail (the mention that El has a round belly, Peter sharing his own feelings) and take that opportunity to expose their views.

I agree with you (and Thumper). I don't understand the need to go on a fic and leave a negative comment. This is not a peer-reviewed journal, this is not even an officially published book. This is fanfiction, just for fun. By the fans, for the fans. Yes, if I post it out there, I accept to expose myself to judgement. But hey, fandom is supposed to be fun and positive!
I feel shitty enough when I receive a review on a scientific paper manuscript, I don't need my fandom to go all shitty on me too.

And if you don't like it, just freaking stop reading and move on! That's what I do. You don't like, stop reading, stop watching the show. There's no point of making yourself miserable...

[reve-silencieux.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Don't like - don't read. Goodness, if they really wanted to spread their hate, don't they realize how much fic is out there that they don't agree with and how much time it would take to review and argue against them all? I mean, just look at the number of P/N fics! I'm sure they don't agree with that because Peter is such an abusive person and having a relationship with Neal is sooo bad. They're the ones wasting their time, and who really enjoys reading something they don't like/agree with? It boggles the mind.

[joy2190.livejournal.com]

I'm with Thumper!

[kanarek13]

{{{{{HUGS}}}}}

Unfortunately the haters are everywhere and I think we both know very well that there's no reasoning with them. It's all really simple, everyone got their own interpretation of the show and their own ideas, and that is cool, it's just simply a matter of respecting each other's views and interacting with people who share similar views. But they will never ever understand it, so the best thing to do is spot the WTFs and have a laugh.

I know these comments are hurtful but I believe it does help when you know what type of people you are dealing with. Plus, you can always find a sane corner to ramble and have fun.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

But it is still frustrating. At this point, I wish I could just turn off comments on AO3. I do get a few kudos and hits, so I assume some people who aren't from LJ do enjoy my stories, so I don't want to stop posting there, but I really could do without that shit.

The thing is, there's a difference between arguing about the show, and someone telling you, in a comment to your own work: "I wish I could like it, but I can't".

But you're right. I should just focus on the fact that I'm writing "in character". And I suppose that if it irritates a troll, it has be be actually good, right? ;)

[kanarek13]

I know it's frustrating, but when you can't do anything about it (and you really can't do anything about it), yeah, just think that you have irritated that troll to a point of commenting, LOL. Usually they just sit under their rotten blanket of anonymity :P

[maryrose-it.livejournal.com]

I 've had and I have enough of these people who never miss a chance to spit venom against Peter or Mozzie or El but especially against Peter I liked your story and how you have tried to fix things between our boys . I don't have a so happy vision but this is my idea about the post finale .The beauty of this finale is that let each of us the freedom to imagine what might happen after... so I think that everyone has the right to write "his" story and for those who criticize yours well they only have to write their own and respect the choices that each of us has for our desired post finale ...

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Exactly! :)

[elrhiarhodan]

{{{HUGS YOU}}}

Honestly, I hate AO3 - for many reasons, but the top one has to be that the lack of community it creates gives people the freedom to bash and criticize without restraint or consideration for the creator. I only post on AO3 as a secondary archive - most of my works go there months after they're posted on my journal, unless the fandom only exists on that forum (or I don't really care about the work itself, like the Avengers smut I wrote at the beginning of the month).

LJ - for all its flaws - engenders community, friendship, and respect. Time and again, I've seen people I know on both platforms leave vicious and soul-withering comments on AO3, but would never dream of doing that on LJ.

AO3 professes to be the torch bearer for fanworks is doing its level best to destroy fandom. Kudos are easy, like potato chips and too many people only bother to leave negative comments.

And your comment about FF.net -- when The Pit began its wholesale deletion of works it considered "offensive" there was a mass migration to AO3, so you now have all of those trolls to deal with, too.

I'm sorry you've gone through this. It's not right or fair.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly.
Here on LJ, we learn to know each other. So that creates a sense of proximity and friendship, even if we don't all know each other for real and don't all share personal things.

On AO3, there is nothing of that, so all those trolls, even if they have a username, they still have this anonymity feeling. I don't know them, they don't know me, so that's okay to spill all that crap.

Some people here were saying they preferred AO3. Either to read stories or for kudos, or whatever, that's why I started posting there. But yeah, I have mixed feelings about it.

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

*HUGS*

Sending lot of Peter love and happy vibes.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

***hugs back***

Me love some Peter love :)

[sheenianni.livejournal.com]

I still recall a particularly vicious review to one of my S3 AUs where Diana slapped Neal - she found out that Neal had the treasure and then he tried to blackmail her into not exposing him when she caught him getting rid of evidence. Immdiately I was accused of trying to crucify and villify Neal, even though the whole story was basically an attempt to explain and reconcile everyone's POV (meaning Neal, Peter, Diana, Hughes, Mozzie and El).

OTOH I also got a lot of nice reviews saying they appreaciated the complex perspective. I guess sometimes you just have to ignore the mean ones and move on.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Oh poor baby Neal, how *dare* you being so mean to him! Boy, a slap! LOOL

You're right. And I've got some nice reviews on that fic, too. But those vicious comments are always the long, elaborated ones. And on AO3, they're a large portion of the few comments I get.

[leesa_perrie]

Oh boy, there are so many fics that I've read that I don't like for one reason or another, but leaving 'feedback' that is just a rant about why I don't like their view of the show, characters etc is both pointless and mean. If I come across a Peter-bashing fic (for instance), I pass on by (and sometimes they're really kind and put something in the tags or summary so I can avoid the pain of reading it in the first place), but I don't stop and tell them why I think they're being unreasonable, or point out all the ways that Neal has been a complete and utter selfish ass at times!! (And this from a Neal fan, lol!)

I wish people would leave those comments to forums and places such as that, not on fanfic. Though that 'unfortunately in character' bit is pretty hilarious! I never knew that was a bad thing... *rolls eyes*

*mega lots of hugs*

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

LOL yes, that's nice of them to warn from the get go that it's gonna be Peter-bashing. Though the idea that "Peter bashing" is kind of a trope and something to be proud of scares me a little...

But yeah, same. I don't even see the point of wasting any more of my time by leaving a comment that I know will have zero effect. I was reading one fic recently that had a rather interesting premise. By chapter 5, Peter was served is little "lecture".... Oh, okay, bye!

***hugs back!***

[sg-lab.livejournal.com]

There are a couple of fandoms I have been in where a lot of fics needed an x character bashing tag. There was a trope that developed in those fandoms that was all about killing x character the author didn't like.

Sorry you're getting this crap on AO3. Another fandom I read fic on AO3 for has this one anonymous troll going around to every fic with a particular pairing she doesn't like and makes the most vile comments towards the authors. Hugs.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

I just... *facepalm* I don't understand people. Why on Earth would you feel the need to bit the crap out of a character? Or kill him just because you don't like him? (isn't that borderline psychopathic?)
Isn't it more enjoyable to *like* characters, than disliking them?

One of the reasons I love WC so much is precisely because the characters are very much likeable (though I suppose that's not the way everyone sees them).

I don't know if this should reassure me that it's not a unique case, or terrify me about human nature...

***hugs back***

[sg-lab.livejournal.com]

Totally agree. I would rather enjoy what I like in the fandom than focus on what I don't like. And if there is anything I really hate, I just leave.

Unfortunately about every fandom I have been involved in has had at least one character a group of people bash in fanfic and other places. And they would often use their favorite character in fic to project their hate for the character.

My experience in other fandoms had always been female characters targeted for hate. There's a lot of misogyny in fandom too . :(

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Same. When I stop enjoying a show, I just stop watching it. Or at least I admit to myself that I should stop ^^ But I don't make people miserable about it. If you post a NCIS fic, I'm not gonna come to your fic and say how old that show is getting.

I feel often disconnected because I just like being happy. I do my best to see the glass half-full. And I sure won't waste my time on things that don't make me happy.
Like, Neal does something bad, or Peter does. But it's still largely overweighted by all the good things they've done. Yes, the show isn't perfect, it does have plotholes, but it's still a very enjoyable show, with lots of qualities that overcome the little flaws.

And yes, definitely a lot of misogyny. Including regarding whoever an actor might be dating. I used to be in the George Clooney fandom. I still love him but the trolls there got the best out of me. Each of his girlfriend was worse than the previous one, calling them whores... I don't dare look what they think about his wife...

[pipilj.livejournal.com]

{{Hugs}}. I completely agree people do have forums to air their views about characters.
I still follow ff.net there are still some great stories there. You are right the Peter and El bashing stories get trying ( I stop so many stories half way).
At least AO3 does not allow totally anonymous comments, sometimes people can get very nasty I know of an author who quit ff.net because of vicious trolling.
The "unfortunately in character" is ironic.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

There's probably nice fics on FF.net, but I've read so many fics that makes me sad and hungry, so I've just stopped checking it.
And actually, everywhere, I read a lot less fics than I used to, because I'm afraid of reading some Peter-bashing. It just takes the fun out of it.

***hugs back***

[cookiegirl]

*hugs*

I wish these people could find something better to do /o\ It's horrible when you get that 'oh yay I have a comment, how exciting' feeling, and then it's replaced by 'oh... THANKS A LOT.'

I think 'unfortunately in character' is technically a compliment though :D

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

Exactly! LOL "yay comment!" \o/ "urk comment..." /o\

Love the icon! ;)

[veleda-k.livejournal.com]

"Unfortunately in character." That just sums it up, doesn't it?

Oh, fandom. Why do you have to be like you are?

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

It does.
You know, I wonder if the show isn't simply too nice, too soft. It's like those people would want it to be dark, and mean, and depressing. They *want* Peter to be mean and abusive to Neal. They want the show to be Angel Neal against All the Evil Forces of the World.

[palombaggia.livejournal.com]

Oh sweetie those trolls are idiots.
We all know Peter loves Neal to pieces.
And Peter is a great character.
Hugs

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

I wish everyone believed that...
It's a shame not everyone can see that, but Peter definitely is a great character. One of the best characters on TV, and for sure, my favorite.
*hugs back*

[tjs-whatnot.livejournal.com]

So gross. I get that some times too on different fandoms, one fandom in particular where there are literally thousands of fics devoted to any character you'd care to read about, so why come on my stories and tell me all the ways my favorite character (and you know they're a fave because I'm writing about them) is a horrible person. Just... why?

'Cause people are strange. And dumb.

[aragarna.livejournal.com]

'Cause people are strange. And dumb.

Yep, that sums it up I think...